EA on Women in Battlefield V: Haters Can Either "Accept it or Don't Buy the Game"

EA's chief creative officer has strong words for anyone bothered by the presence of women in Battlefield V.

News by Nadia Oxford, .

The backlash against the appearance of women soldiers in Battlefield V's preview materials is "not okay," EA's chief creative officer Patrick Soderlund told Gamasutra in an interview at E3 2018. Sonderlund added anyone who's disturbed by the women's presence is welcome not to buy the game.

Women characters are playing a large role in promoting Battlefield V, and one even decorates the game's box art. There's been some backlash on social media about EA caving to "political correctness" at the expense of "historical accuracy" in a franchise makes it possible for four of your friends to pile on a single horse and blast through the First World War with a flamethrower.

"Battlefield V is a lot about the unseen, the untold, the unplayed," Sonderlund said to Gamasutra. "The common perception is that there were no women in World War II. There were a ton of women who both fought in World War II and partook in the war."

Women indeed fought in the Second World War, and Soviet women were particularly active in combat. But outside of commentary about historical accuracy or inaccuracy, Sonderlund is just disappointed to see a pushback against the inclusion of women combatants in Battlefield V.

"[My 13-year-old daughter] plays Fortnite, and says, 'I can be a girl in Fortnite. Why are people so upset about this?' She looked at me and she couldn't understand it," Sonderlund said. "And I'm like, ok, as a parent, how the hell am I gonna respond to this, and I just said, 'You know what? You're right. This is not okay.'"

"[T]oday gaming is gender-diverse, like it hasn't been before. There are a lot of female people who want to play, and male players who want to play as a badass [woman]," Sonderlund continued. "We stand up for the cause, because I think those people who don't understand it, well, you have two choices: either accept it or don't buy the game. I'm fine with either or. It's just not ok."

Regardless of how you feel about ladies in combat, our Battlefield V guide has everything you need to know about the game. Battlefield V comes out on October 19 for PlayStation 4, Xbox One, and PC.

This article may contain links to online retail stores. If you click on one and buy the product we may receive a small commission. For more information, go here.

Comments 38

  • Avatar for The-Challenger #1 The-Challenger 4 months ago
    Holy crap. What took them so long?
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  • Avatar for Wellman2nd #2 Wellman2nd 4 months ago
    Bravo, seriously these games are meant to be played by 'matured' audiences if you are not adult enough to be able to play a game as a different gender, race or whatever without feeling it hurts your pride / machismo then maybe you shouldn't be playing this type of game.
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  • Avatar for Galgomite #3 Galgomite 4 months ago
    I don't play a lot of FPS's but I actually do think that having a woman on the box will hurt sales. I think that, for guys of a certain age, it's a comfort zone thing (right or wrong aside). I'll be truly impressed with the gaming public if I'm wrong, and regardless of spin, we'll know when there is or is never another mainstream FPS marketed this way in the next ten years.
    WAIT A MINUTE! There's a man on the more expensive Deluxe Edition! Ok, now I get it. Pretty clever.
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  • Avatar for kookycutter #4 kookycutter 4 months ago
    I'll play devils advocate here; I think the general argument against this is the purposeful over-representation of a extremely small percentage of females that had combat roles and the fact that Battlefield compared to other AAA shooter titles was generally accepted as being the most authentic.

    "[My 13-year-old daughter] plays Fortnite, and says, 'I can be a girl in Fortnite. Why are people so upset about this?' She looked at me and she couldn't understand it," Sonderlund said. "And I'm like, ok, as a parent, how the hell am I gonna respond to this, and I just said, 'You know what? You're right. This is not okay.'"

    This in particular is a strange statement. Of course you can play as a girl in Fortnite, in most modern multiplayer games there are plenty of options to play as females.
    The theme DICE picked for their game is based on real events that have actually happened and where a small minority of women actually fought. Is that not a good enough answer for a 13 year old girl to accept?

    I don't think this backlash would of occurred had it been a shooter based in present day or a futuristic setting.

    Again, playing devils advocate here; I am definitely going to buy the game and think the new gameplay changes look excellent and to be honest I don't notice that there are women in game when playing but I can understand to a degree why some people are upset.

    Edit: Perhaps I am being cynical but in my own opinion I do not believe the inclusion of women is anything to do with DICE or EA's political views on equality. They have got rid of premium pass and want to run the game as a live service, and without the inclusion of lootboxes they are following the model of Fortnite with purchasable cosmetics. Adding women to the game simply increases the amount of cosmetics they can sell as certain items can be tailored towards female character models.Edited June 2018 by kookycutter
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  • Avatar for Fourfoldroot #5 Fourfoldroot 4 months ago
    Easy PR win when you know the haters are miniscule in number, although admittedly loud. Sorry if I seem cynical, but I'm sure they know the whole "misogynist gamer" thing is way overblown in the media.Edited June 2018 by Fourfoldroot
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  • Avatar for DrownedBurrito #6 DrownedBurrito 4 months ago
    What an absolutely tone deaf response from EA. First of all, gamers don't have a problem with females being in games or even the leads. Games like Bayonetta, Nier, and Tomb Raider disprove this myth. The entire issue gamers have with the inclusion of females in BF5 is that it's set during WW2. Here's some data for you to chew on; During WW2 in American 16,100,000 Americans served.

    Of that 16,100,000 only 300,000 were females. Of that 300,000 females only around 12 or so died in direct combat. That's just America, but I'm sure it wasn't that much better worldwide. The simple fact of history is that WW2 was an overwhelmingly male war in terms of actual combat.

    If you want female representation so badly then don't make a game based on a WW2 setting, make some sci-fi shooter like Halo or something. And sure certain historical liberties have been taken with the BF series, but they were always done for the sake of GAMEPLAY, not pushing an agenda and identity politics.

    That's the entire issue here and why so many gamers are upset. So not only am I not going to be supporting this game, I'm actively going to be boycotting it and encourage gamers to do the same. We can't allow these game companies to use their games to promote social justice. Make games for gamers, not political or social activists.Edited 2 times. Last edited June 2018 by DrownedBurrito
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  • Avatar for pdubb #7 pdubb 4 months ago
    Imagine being so bitter in life that you get triggered by having a woman on a video game cover and then write a 47 paragraph manifesto about how identity politics are ruining video games.

    You complain about how unrealisitic women in combat is, in a game when you can be shot multiple times by high caliber weaponry and shake off all the ill effects of being shot by hiding behind a wall for 10 seconds until the screen is no longer red around the edges.

    Yup, the woman holding a gun is the only unrealistic thing in the Battlefield series. Totally.
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  • Avatar for Divenity #8 Divenity 4 months ago
    @Wellman2nd You miss the point entirely... This doesn't hurt anyone's pride or "machismo", it's simply not historically accurate.

    No one has a problem when games feature females where it makes sense... No one has a problem with Lara in Tomb Raider, or Samus in Metroid, No one gave a shit when they let us make Nobel 6 female in Halo: Reach, in fact no one ever said anything about any of the female Spartans or marines in any halo game, no one complains about female soldiers in Planetside 2... No one says anything because it makes sense in those settings, doing it in a WW2 game just doesn't.

    Trying to call the opposition to this misogynistic is a bold faced lie, because if that were actually the issue, you would see these same complaints voiced about every other game with playable female characters, but you don't. Edited 2 times. Last edited June 2018 by Divenity
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  • Avatar for pdubb #9 pdubb 4 months ago

    Pictured: 1 Sept 1918 - Soldiers from the 23rd Austrailian Infantry Battalion ( Austrailian 2nd Division) fighting for the British Empire await respawn during the Battle of Mont Saint-Quentin. Soldiers in this brutal battle had to deal with brutal respawn times and rampant spawn camping from the German LI Corps.

    Yup. Realism. Edited June 2018 by pdubb
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  • Avatar for DuckNachos99 #10 DuckNachos99 4 months ago
    Nobody's asking for, nor expecting 100% realism. There's a difference between realism and immersion. I can guarantee you that almost 100% of people playing this can realize it's a video game. Given practical and technological limitations inherent in any game, there are certain concessions people make to reality. Health regeneration and bullet damage are examples of this. That being said, it really isn't a legitimate argument to cite this as a reason for why it's ridiculous to expect immersion in a video game, specifically a game in which the developers have said is the most immersive Battlefield game ever made.Edited June 2018 by DuckNachos99
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  • Avatar for pdubb #11 pdubb 4 months ago
    Pictured - Ruined immersion in a video game

    Also pictured - Not ruined immersion in a video game
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  • Avatar for EscapingBurger #12 EscapingBurger 4 months ago
    @DrownedBurrito Think about it this way: Only 156,000 troops (73,000 of them American) were involved in the Normandy invasion, less than number of women serving in the war. And yet, the Normandy invasion has been featured in numerous games. Why? It's not because it's statistically representative of the WW2 experience, it's because it's interesting. In all fiction--historical fiction included--the goal is to tell interesting stories, not the most common or expected stories. As long as the stories told in this game could have plausibly occurred--even if they were rare!--then the historical accuracy isn't in question.

    Personally, I don't normally follow this series, but the trailer about a Norwegian resistance fighter piqued my curiosity a lot more than most WW2 games, specifically because it's different from what I've seen before.
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  • Avatar for Divenity #13 Divenity 4 months ago
    Deleted June 2018 by Divenity
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  • Avatar for Divenity #14 Divenity 4 months ago
    @pdubb The bottom picture is a bug, meaning it's unintended, DICE didn;t design the game with the intent that you would be able to do that. Game engines have limitations, and it costs money to fix bugs. Edited June 2018 by Divenity
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  • Avatar for DuckNachos99 #15 DuckNachos99 4 months ago
    @pdubb Yes, that’s exactly right. The first picture is not immersive. The uniforms, face paint, prosthetic limb, and yes the fact that she is a woman in the BRITISH military on the WESTERN front are not immersive. The second picture is immersive. The uniforms, player models, an equipment are all correct to the time period. That is immersion. The problem is that it’s not REALISTIC. That is due to a bug in the physics engine of the game. We were never promised realism, we were promised immersion, hence the outrage.
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  • Avatar for DrownedBurrito #16 DrownedBurrito 4 months ago
    @pdubb You're arguing game mechanics vs identity politics. Making inaccuracies to satisfy gamers is fine. Making inaccuracies to satisfy SJWs is not fine.

    @EscapingBurger Again, that was done because it was interesting for the story and/or gameplay. The inclusion of females however is entirely done for the sake of virtue signalling and identity politics, that's the huge difference and why this is a major problem. What's more if they at least cited a specific group of female soldiers that were active during WW2 and made a game specifically about them, and didn't name it Battlefield then I promise you there wouldn't be nearly as much drama.

    They took a series that predominantly featured men & WW2 setting and then threw women in entirely because they wanted to be inclusive and divrse, not because they wanted to enhance the gameplay and story. There's even a quote from a game designer for BF5 that confirms this. They did this for the sake of identity politics. Edited 3 times. Last edited June 2018 by DrownedBurrito
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  • Avatar for pdubb #17 pdubb 4 months ago
    Guys, guys, I think we should all just agree with the one (or more, but unlikely) troll who literally created an account on a video game forum because their feelings are hurt that a woman is a character in a video game.

    I know my certainly my opinion has been changed after the goal posts have been repeatedly moved through edits and bad faith arguments.

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  • Avatar for DrownedBurrito #18 DrownedBurrito 4 months ago
    @pdubb The goal isn't to change the mind of SJWs like yourself, but to dispell your false narratives for the neutral masses so they can understand exactly why gamers have a problem with the inclusion of females in this game.

    As has been carefully explained multiple times in the above posts women being in games isn't the problem & anybody who's being honest understands this. The problem is the setting and series females are being included in and the reasoning behind it, backed up by quotes from game devs themselves.

    In short females being in games aren't the problem, SJWs putting women in games they have no business being in for the sake of identity politics is the problem. Edited June 2018 by DrownedBurrito
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  • Avatar for willhenk59 #19 willhenk59 4 months ago
    Sorry but the fact of the matter is ww2 was about 99% men. The reason people bring up russian snipers and night witches and fench resistance is because they are the exception. I dont need example of men in ww2 because it was primarily men that fought ww2. EA has shown its true colors that they are trying to shove a sjw agenda down their gamers throats, and for the record no One cares they are women, they are mad because they are portrayed extremely out of context. People like having an immersive experience. Why not do it like cod waw when you could be a female russian in multiplayer? Or why not do an actual story on an actual woman fighter in ww2? That would be more exciting than whatever social justice warrior garbage they come up wih. Don’t buy it if I don’t like it? Fine by me, i don’t buy EA games because On principal because they are a terrible company that only seeks to nickle and dime players.Edited June 2018 by willhenk59
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  • Avatar for willhenk59 #20 willhenk59 4 months ago
  • Avatar for willhenk59 #21 willhenk59 4 months ago
    @pdubb people just want an immersive experience...
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  • Avatar for 서원&#48 #22 서원&#48 4 months ago
    It's one of discrimination they have to know that
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  • Avatar for DuckNachos99 #23 DuckNachos99 4 months ago
    @DrownedBurrito I concur with you wholeheartedly. However, I think pdubb is a troll himself. I know, I fell for it at first, too.
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  • Avatar for pdubb #24 pdubb 4 months ago
    Because I have been a member of this community for a lot longer than a bunch of sock puppets, I offer this advice to those developers and members of the gaming press who visit this area.

    Take note of the vocabulary: virtue signalling, SJW, the use of females instead of women to be pejorative, mentioning of identity politics.

    This is not your audience. Or at least it's not your paying audience. These are the gamers who pirate your games and then lead a campaign to boycott your game because they don't agree.

    They will always, always, always, find something to be offended by. They need the outrage because they are addicted to being faux victims.

    The absolute worst thing you can do is to cave to them. Think of what happens when you give a mouse a cookie.

    Their entire existence is being mad because media is being made and consumed that does not cater to their identity exclusively.
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  • Avatar for Divenity #25 Divenity 4 months ago

    "the use of females instead of women to be pejorative"

    How is that wrong exactly? Female is the correct word, as is women, they mean the same damn thing... The only way it can possibly be pejorative is if you imagine it to be so in your own head. You are projecting your contempt onto our words, taking them to mean something that they don't because you want to win an argument that you have been repeatedly given logical, factual reasoning for you being wrong on.

    "They will always, always, always, find something to be offended by."

    See post #8 in this comment section for why this is completely false.

    "They need the outrage because they are addicted to being faux victims. "
    Oh the irony in this statement.

    "Their entire existence is being mad because media is being made and consumed that does not cater to their identity exclusively."

    Again, see post #8 for why this is completely false.
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  • Avatar for DrownedBurrito #26 DrownedBurrito 4 months ago
    @pdubb You're projecting what SJWs themselves are, crybullies who are never satisfied. The terms we use work because they're accurate. People like you are in fact Social Justice Warriors. To you females being in games is a means to promote your identity politics and the way you feel the world should be. SJWs are not gamers, they're political activists. Take a look at this quote from one of the game designers for BF5.

    As I said, these people aren't interested in what's good for the game, but rather what's good for their specific cultural and political agenda. Those of us speaking out against this SJW incursion are the actual gamers trying to save our hobby from being ruined by SJWs using the medium to spread their cultural gospel.

    This isn't your safespace or soapbox, this is a place for gamers to enjoy themselves & be immersed in fantastical & fun environments, free from all the noise of the real world. SJWs do not speak for gamers, gamers speak for gamers. What's especially amusing is that this Game Director states gamers could "learn something about history", but omits the fact that WW2 was a war fought almost entirely by men, with women nearly being non-existent on the frontlines. This isn't history, it's revisionism for the sake of identity politics.

    Also there are plenty of games the games director can play that have females, so I'm not even sure what argument they're trying to make there.

    To the Devs of BF5 I can promise you that you've severely hurt your potential sales of this game by pandering to your non-gamer SJW audience. Edited 2 times. Last edited June 2018 by DrownedBurrito
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  • Avatar for StuntzX #27 StuntzX 4 months ago
    @DrownedBurrito So you admit there where women in WW2. So you wont play this game because if is disproportional to women in WW2? War story characters and 1 is a women so its not cool? Men and Women PLAY the game so why force all women to play as male characters. The game is going to give people tons of personal customization but wont let female players be their own gender and because of this you wont even play the game? The play is a representation of the person that is playing the game. I think that is best for everyone that you or others like you don't play the game. The rest of us who will be playing the game regardless of a women player. Get over yourself move on and and play games to have fun.
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  • Avatar for DxV04 #28 DxV04 4 months ago
    @DrownedBurrito That is what ticked me off too, the response. It's not about haters it's not about gender "equality" It is about how they treat gamers in general. If they would have given a more reasonable response than this then I would have accepted it and bought it but since their response is juvenile then I won't buy it. I got plenty of games to play.
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  • Avatar for georgiawhitehead #29 georgiawhitehead 4 months ago
    good on EA for standing up to these pathetic man children, i personally dont think women should be in this game however i understand that its a customization option to allow players to choose which they prefer unlike the other battlefield games where we were forced to be a female on certain classes so if you idiots can stop and think for one second this will mean there is less females than before due to most people choose male for their classes, one of the single player war stories will feature a female lead thats it, multiplayer will be exactly the same but with even less females than normal so i dont get the crying?

    on another note you guys need to stop using the "not historically accurate" it makes you look like even bigger misogynists no where does this game say anything about being authentic or realistic infact they have said multiple times this is their own imagining and that its BASED ON ww2, every battlefield game is inaccurate and they are all based on their era's - being based on an era means they include weapons, vehicles, tools, locations etc from that era which they have done, this battlefield game is just as accurate and realistic as any of them, its just the fact that a woman is on the cover that the only difference, just like with battlefield 1 and the black soliders who later turned out to be Harlem Hellfighters (making the racists look like idiots)

    at the end of the day these shooters are a FUN ARCADE shooter if you want accuracy go play one of the ww2 mil simsEdited June 2018 by georgiawhitehead
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  • Avatar for DuckNachos99 #30 DuckNachos99 4 months ago
    @StuntzX People aren't upset by the disproportional representation of women. It's the misrepresentation of women in this context that is vexing. Battlefield 1 was disproportionate in its representation of women in the Russian DLC. Making one out of four of the playable character models for the Russian Empire was historically inaccurate. The actual numbers were far less than 25% of the Russian military. Yet, women really did fight in the Russian military during WWI, so given the historical precedence, the design decision made sense to a degree and the large percentage of gamers (myself included) had absolutely no problem with this. So, it's clearly not the women or disproportionate representation of women that's the problem. That said, why not do something similar in Battlefield V? As for saying that the player model is a representation of the player, that's simply not true. I am a Hispanic man. If I turned on a game of Battlefield 4 and spawned as a soldier in the Chinese Army, I would not expect to play as a character that looks like me. That just wouldn't make any sense given that the PLA doesn't have any Hispanic men. Logically, I would expect to look like a Chinese soldier and would think it's rather stupid that they would go out of their way to represent me in a place I should not logically be represented. This doesn't mean I hate myself, or other Hispanic people. It just means forcing diversity into a historical context it shouldn't logically exist is not something I agree with. As for me not playing the game, I won't. Not because of the women and diversity, which, while disagreeable in this setting, is not the primary concern. Seeing a professional company making egregious statements, demonizing their own fans by calling them "bigoted" and "uneducated" is completely unacceptable and I could not in good conscience, support that. Your comment and many others like it, seem to exemplify this. By the way, I hope I understood what you were saying correctly and apologize if I misinterpreted. Your syntax, spelling, and grammar leave much to be desired.
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  • Avatar for Fiona-W #31 Fiona-W 4 months ago
    The amount of long-winded excuses for simply not wanting a woman in the boy's club in these comments is almost cartoonish. It'd be silly if it weren't so gross.
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  • Avatar for daveyc02909 #32 daveyc02909 4 months ago
    @DrownedBurrito I was sort of with you until that last paragraph.
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  • Avatar for alexva1 #33 alexva1 4 months ago
    I find it highly amusing that all the gaming "yellow press" as well as EA themselves keep pushing their "male gamers hate seeing women in games" PoV, ignoring simple FACT that most gamers (including most male gamers) have NOT criticized games like Fortnite (and all its trailers) for the inclusion of female character selection... You can also look at other trailers, for example for game such as "Final Fantasy XIV: Stormblood" (a trailer which gives plenty of on-screen time to female character), which was rated MUCH higher than the BF5's trailer. Can you explain why those trailers were rated much higher, using your "male gamers hate seeing women in games" theory? ;-)

    It is also equally amusing seeing how many "yellow press" publications keep showing links which show that "women did fight in WW2"... Most gamers never disputed this fact. They actually disputed other things, like the FACT that there were no female combatants during WW2 who were running with blue facepaint and were able to handle all kind of firearms and melee weapons with ease with their prosthetic arm... Or the FACT that vast majority of female combatants in WW2 spoke a different language - Russian (as well as all languages of all USSR's republics), since there were over 800,000 of them, which is a significantly larger amount compared to any female combat participants from any allied country. How about linking to this fact instead? ;-)

    Come on, "gaming journalist" people... I know that you are simply afraid that if you won't take the side of EA - you won't get invited by them to exclusive events or won't receive early review copies of their games, but in the end it's not them who pay you money, it's all the readers of the website (through the Ad views), and if you'll permanently alienate a large portion of them through your dishonesty (and always taking the side of game developers/publishers) - I highly doubt that any "exclusive EA events" will be able to cover up those losses...
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  • Avatar for InuMiroLover #34 InuMiroLover 4 months ago
    Im willing to bet there would be slightly less backlash if the women were not wearing combat uniforms, but rather wearing camo bikinis and high heels.
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  • Avatar for alhusainosama71 #35 alhusainosama71 4 months ago
    1- women always had a mark in gaming since the beginning, idiotic people just fail to realize that because either they didn't like the role didn't relate to it or though the character was too good looking.

    2- tell your daughter that "people don't dislike the existence of women in games, for example everyone loves horizon, tomb raider and many more games that have a woman protagonist, what people really hate is being forced to something, for example the feminist or homosexual ideal, there were women in the WW2 but they didn't have that much impact nor these numbers and he said it himself that "Soviet women were particularly active in combat" even though the game showed only brits, these people really got angry over this historic inaccuracy in a game that is supposed to simulate history in the most accurate way just to please a certain type or category of people"
    games are not for women or men or homosexuals or black people, they are for anyone that plays them, the only reason you think "white males" dominated the gaming industry is because:
    A: you are mentally lacking.
    B: you are lacking in most aspects and you have to replace it with an anger towards "white privilege"to justify and gain confidence.
    C: is because back in the day they were the most people that cared about this type of entertainment most women thought it was stupid, and there were black people but not in the same numbers,

    no one was discriminate against since the gaming industry was the most unstereotypical and open industry in the existence, most of the time they fought for what was right and logical and that was the work of many "privileged white" men a select few women and a good number of black people.

    what is happening right now has no place in the gaming industry because its ruining it, big companies like EA are fishing for a bigger sale with these sorts of stunts and in other words they no longer care about the games they care about the cash flow far more than they did before.

    one thing i learned from this article is that we should never take the word of someone who can't even answer a simple question a 13 year old asked, you shouldn't either,

    these are not strong words, these are idiotic over the line lip services.
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  • Avatar for TheHerpetologist #36 TheHerpetologist 4 months ago
    If you're honestly upset about a woman in a damn game, you need to grow the hell up. This game is not historically accurate, that's just something people say when they feel like calling themselves the big boys over people who play CoD. If you want to be immersed in WW2, go get shot in the stomach with a 70 year old gun. It's a video game, if it honestly offends you, then the M-rating should keep you from buying the game.
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  • Avatar for fucking-genius- #37 fucking-genius- 4 months ago
    I hope they make a game about Demize99 and replace him with a woman
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  • Avatar for matthewwilliammillet #38 matthewwilliammillet 2 months ago

    Life comes at you fast, and with the don't like it don't buy asshat getting shit canned, lets see how long this approach lasts. The amount of women who fought is a rounding error compared to the amount of men who fought and died in that war, the disrespect EA showed the actual men who fought and died by making such a bullshit comparison was embarrassing. Women were not drafted to fight. Women were not conscripted to fight. Those few that did so were part of resistance groups in occupied territory or besieged cities. There were no women landing on D-Day, none dropped out of airplanes and to correlate what men went through in that conflict with picking up a rifle when the Germans are surrounding your city? Grow up and realize that millions of men died in that war, FAR more men than women gave their lives. Show some respect.
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  • Avatar for matthewwilliammillet #39 matthewwilliammillet 2 months ago
    @Galgomite sales are shit and the guy who made the "don't like it don't buy it" comment, got fired. Gamers have spoken
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